Absolutely great post. I think about this stuff a lot also! I wonder if Judy Garland might also fit in w/ Elvis, Marilyn, et al, as Eternal (For Now, Anyway).
I think she does, even if by now, she has faded a LOT in memory — she isn't as iconic as Elvis, James Dean, Marilyn Monroe. But her death was definitely explosive. And again, she was super young when she died. Dolly is a really rare example of someone who dies in old age and it blows up the world's feelings. I know Betty White was a very, very big deal, but it was different. Yet she's the only other very old one I can think of who caused widespread grieving. Sadly, we have more coming.
I think having The Wizard of Oz in her filmography really helps Garland's staying power a lot. With movie stars filmography is paramount. I predict stars like Jessica Lange will fade relatively quickly because they just don't have many (or any) films that remain truly iconic in the culture (the closest thing Lange has is co-starring in Tootsie).
Glad to be a gay old boomer who was and is still enthralled by the great stars of yesteryear and some of the stars of today. Your essay is most interesting, Matthew, and what seems to be especially shocking about Dolly Parton's passing was how well she looked right up to the end when she was still in the public eye. The length of some of these stars' careers is also incredible, as you pointed out, the only star of yesteryear who I can think of that worked into great old age was George Burns. Thank you for your lists, for your insight and for sharing your appreciation of fame and stardom.
This was so thoughtful and much appreciated. Though I had to laugh when you said "morbid" -- when I used to read celebrity biographies, I always jumped to the end first to see how they died. Shameless! (shameful?). One anecdote jumps to mind: when Mickey Rooney died in 2014, several mainstream reporters called him Andy Rooney (giving some credit now, maybe they were thinking Andy Hardy?) but it made me sad because here was the biggest, most popular, some say most talented performer in the world -- and everyone had forgotten him, including his right name. That world had died and moved on, and Mickey had outlasted them all. So it's important that you remember and celebrate these people. They were the firmament of a great century and a great world, and if you don't record their accomplishments and meaning now, future generations simply won't know.
My kids called Paul Newman "that salad dressing guy." To them, he was famous (and rightly so) for his balsamic vinegar.
It's all about perspective, tempered by time, and by time slot. Our life gives us this little window. Some things pop up in reruns or reboots.
Also, it's not just our age and time, but those by which we are influenced. I was raised by a Depression - era mom and her boomer little sister. My aunt made me watch the OG Mickey Mouse Club, and sang me songs by The Supremes and Peter Paul and Mary. My mom loved old (to me!) musicals, so of course I had a crush on Gene Kelly.
Yes; while maddening that people don't know who Bette Davis is, I also take the opposing viewpoint of — how can we expect them to? When we were young, things were just becoming complicated as far as multiple TV channels, so we were all still watching the same things over and over, and a relatively limited amount of things. Now, there are so many things, so many choices, it's going to be impossible to have a shared memory of pop culture let alone of PAST pop culture.
Yes, but my kids know so much more music than I ever did! They can access so much for so little. Even though one of my kids once told me that the 80s were "the worst decade in history!" (haha sorry), I'm constantly asking them how they know some pretty obscure songs. They don't have to save their money to buy records (although they do), they don't get scammed by Columbia House, radio stations don't own their wee souls, and they can do a deep dive anywhere, any time, into anything.
My daughter knows Brigitte Bardot as a singer, and knows her unsavory politics. I probably knew her best as an actress whose name fits into crossword puzzles.
I think they're exceptions. Usually, when moaning about how young people don't know all these names of the past, I have to stop and remember you have to find out something about them and make a point of researching. Hard to do amidst all the choice.
Yeah, when I was a kid in the 70s & 80s I knew about most of the Classic Era Hollywood stars, but didn't engage much at all with their output. Now, since around the time of the pandemic, I've become a big fan of those old films and have a new appreciation for stars like Lana Turner, Dennis Morgan, Susan Hayward, etc. etc. etc. People can always discover old art and its creators years and years later.
Beautifully written piece! I look at that list and think about how sad it will be when many of them pass. For me Cher, Barbra, Woody Allen, Carol Burnett, Jane Fonda, and Carly Simon will be the hardest.
Absolutely great post. I think about this stuff a lot also! I wonder if Judy Garland might also fit in w/ Elvis, Marilyn, et al, as Eternal (For Now, Anyway).
I think she does, even if by now, she has faded a LOT in memory — she isn't as iconic as Elvis, James Dean, Marilyn Monroe. But her death was definitely explosive. And again, she was super young when she died. Dolly is a really rare example of someone who dies in old age and it blows up the world's feelings. I know Betty White was a very, very big deal, but it was different. Yet she's the only other very old one I can think of who caused widespread grieving. Sadly, we have more coming.
I think having The Wizard of Oz in her filmography really helps Garland's staying power a lot. With movie stars filmography is paramount. I predict stars like Jessica Lange will fade relatively quickly because they just don't have many (or any) films that remain truly iconic in the culture (the closest thing Lange has is co-starring in Tootsie).
Glad to be a gay old boomer who was and is still enthralled by the great stars of yesteryear and some of the stars of today. Your essay is most interesting, Matthew, and what seems to be especially shocking about Dolly Parton's passing was how well she looked right up to the end when she was still in the public eye. The length of some of these stars' careers is also incredible, as you pointed out, the only star of yesteryear who I can think of that worked into great old age was George Burns. Thank you for your lists, for your insight and for sharing your appreciation of fame and stardom.
Thank you! It's really nuts that Jane Fonda is older than Mae West was when she died. These kinds of parallels keep my mind whirring.
This was so thoughtful and much appreciated. Though I had to laugh when you said "morbid" -- when I used to read celebrity biographies, I always jumped to the end first to see how they died. Shameless! (shameful?). One anecdote jumps to mind: when Mickey Rooney died in 2014, several mainstream reporters called him Andy Rooney (giving some credit now, maybe they were thinking Andy Hardy?) but it made me sad because here was the biggest, most popular, some say most talented performer in the world -- and everyone had forgotten him, including his right name. That world had died and moved on, and Mickey had outlasted them all. So it's important that you remember and celebrate these people. They were the firmament of a great century and a great world, and if you don't record their accomplishments and meaning now, future generations simply won't know.
It's definitely true that people can outlive their legacies! Stars who die in their 90s are often less remembered. Betty White was unique.
My kids called Paul Newman "that salad dressing guy." To them, he was famous (and rightly so) for his balsamic vinegar.
It's all about perspective, tempered by time, and by time slot. Our life gives us this little window. Some things pop up in reruns or reboots.
Also, it's not just our age and time, but those by which we are influenced. I was raised by a Depression - era mom and her boomer little sister. My aunt made me watch the OG Mickey Mouse Club, and sang me songs by The Supremes and Peter Paul and Mary. My mom loved old (to me!) musicals, so of course I had a crush on Gene Kelly.
Time marches on, and we dart in and out.
Yes; while maddening that people don't know who Bette Davis is, I also take the opposing viewpoint of — how can we expect them to? When we were young, things were just becoming complicated as far as multiple TV channels, so we were all still watching the same things over and over, and a relatively limited amount of things. Now, there are so many things, so many choices, it's going to be impossible to have a shared memory of pop culture let alone of PAST pop culture.
Yes, but my kids know so much more music than I ever did! They can access so much for so little. Even though one of my kids once told me that the 80s were "the worst decade in history!" (haha sorry), I'm constantly asking them how they know some pretty obscure songs. They don't have to save their money to buy records (although they do), they don't get scammed by Columbia House, radio stations don't own their wee souls, and they can do a deep dive anywhere, any time, into anything.
My daughter knows Brigitte Bardot as a singer, and knows her unsavory politics. I probably knew her best as an actress whose name fits into crossword puzzles.
I think they're exceptions. Usually, when moaning about how young people don't know all these names of the past, I have to stop and remember you have to find out something about them and make a point of researching. Hard to do amidst all the choice.
Yeah, when I was a kid in the 70s & 80s I knew about most of the Classic Era Hollywood stars, but didn't engage much at all with their output. Now, since around the time of the pandemic, I've become a big fan of those old films and have a new appreciation for stars like Lana Turner, Dennis Morgan, Susan Hayward, etc. etc. etc. People can always discover old art and its creators years and years later.
Beautifully written piece! I look at that list and think about how sad it will be when many of them pass. For me Cher, Barbra, Woody Allen, Carol Burnett, Jane Fonda, and Carly Simon will be the hardest.